DemonCatZombies Video game Idea :D

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DemonCatZombies Video game Idea :D

Post by ZombieDemon on Mon Dec 15, 2014 4:01 pm

So I have been thinking about making a pokemon game. One day I will put my plans into action. This topic is more for you all then it is for me, well just a little for me because I would like Pokemon Fans input on what I should add or take out. Right now here is what I have so far for an idea.

You Can start in any region. Have any of the starters as your starter pokemon. When you goto a new region after finishing the last Region you can choose a new starter. But different from the starter set from previous regions you selected.

You will have an option to have turn base battle on and off but I am thinking of taking out turn base battling for those you dont like it.

There are 4 "Classes" you can choose from. I will add more info on them when I get more ideas for what is needed. They consist of Trainer, Coordinator, Breeder, and Ranger. What I am thinking is you can be all the "Classes" you want to be but you have to pick a main one until you complete all the "Quests" the pertain to it. Say for trainer you want to go to being a Breeder when you beat your first Elite 4. You can switch your main class to a breeder until you want to go back. There are benefits for doing each Class. Breeders might help you train your pokemon when you are a Trainer. Trainers will help your pokemon become more friendly and stronger. Coordinators will help your pokemon do more exotic moves in battle. (Yes I am thinking about you being able to combine pokemon attacks.) Rangers will help you befriend pokemon and can catch pokemon a little more easier.

More Ideas to come Very Happy and please post your own ideas also :3
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Re: DemonCatZombies Video game Idea :D

Post by Drazex on Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:42 am

That would be an INCREDIBLY hard romhack, just from my basic knowledge of romhacking. Using RPGMaker (like Gen 0), though, this could be really cool.

Also, what about a class like Psychic that lets you affect battle directly or indirectly? (EG, mess with the opposing trainer's head to reduce Speed, or make them use illogical attacks)
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Re: DemonCatZombies Video game Idea :D

Post by TBC on Wed Dec 17, 2014 3:08 pm

Actually this would be insanely difficult with RPG Maker as well.  I don't mean to be the guy that rains on the parade.... But that idea is far to loaded to actually conceivably work with someone who has never worked with the engine before.

It's like someone who goes "I'm gonna be a writer!", the next day saying they're gonna right a 1,000 page book and make it a trilogy. It's not gonna happen lol.

As an idea and stuff, that definitely is cool. But your efforts would be better spent on creating something you can actually do. Get used to the program, mess with the existing game they have. Work on doing some stuff first and get a good story down prior.

But a lot of the features and stuff you're suggesting would require just about as much coding as it took to get from normal RPG Maker XP to the Essentials Kit itself.

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Re: DemonCatZombies Video game Idea :D

Post by Drazex on Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:08 am

Oh, I wasn't talking about using the Essentials Kit, nor was I implying that I had anywhere near the knowhow to do something like it ^_^"

I was just meaning, that using the power of RPGMaker (like, the full thing, with doing your own coding) you could do something like that, whereas with romhacking, you'd not only have to start at basically the same degree of square one, but would also have to do it in binary XD
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Re: DemonCatZombies Video game Idea :D

Post by TBC on Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:08 pm

Yeah. I was more directing that at ZombieDemon moreso than you.  But yeah, it could definitely be done with RPG Maker. But yeah, like you said you'd need a lot of specific scripts for it.

Yeah, Romhacking is definitely limiting in terms of features and stuff. That's why I love RMXP :3  Allows for a lot more freedom.
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Re: DemonCatZombies Video game Idea :D

Post by Drazex on Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:23 am

I got RPGMaker a few months ago through HumbleBundle (one of the things that got me into HB), but I have yet to play with it much. I was getting confused trying to make a map with it, and with my towering to-do list, didn't feel like breaking out the tutorials on it (especially with no actual project in mind). It seems like a really great program, for once you know how to use it, though XD
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Re: DemonCatZombies Video game Idea :D

Post by ZombieDemon on Thu Dec 25, 2014 2:55 pm

With my idea for this game I want it to hopefully be with consoles. The Psychic Classification could be a subclass of Trainer like for breeder you could specialize in one egg type so it hatches faster or something like that. I do plan on going to college for Video game design in about years time. There is a lot in my head and I wanted to get it out and see what other people would like to see in this game that I hope to bring to life and bring Pokemon Fans together :3
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Re: DemonCatZombies Video game Idea :D

Post by Drazex on Thu Dec 25, 2014 9:57 pm

I hadn't realized at first that this was a "I'm going to make this" idea, rather than a "wouldn't it be cool if..." idea, so let me give you more specific feedback than my previous two sentences Razz

Though I do want to note, I'm going to sound like a bit of a Negative Nancy, but please understand:  this is a very cool idea, but also a very ambitious one.

Anyway, I suppose my first question is:  Have you programmed a game before?  Several of the following points vary with that question.


With my idea for this game I want it to hopefully be with consoles.
As in you want to be able to load it onto a cartridge and play it?  Or do you want to publish it through official channels?

For the former, you'd either need to know Assembler and how the proprietary formats work (.gba, .ds, etc), or you'd need to make a Romhack, which probably can't do a lot of what you want (due to space restrictions if nothing else), and would still require Assembler.

For the latter, if your goal is to publish it, I wish you the best of luck, though I find it rather unlikely (unfortunately) that Nintendo would pick it up (though it could happen).

Finally, there's always the (good) possibilty I misunderstood your intent with that statement.  If so, feel free to elaborate.


The Psychic Classification could be a subclass of Trainer
Especially if this is an early game in your career (or the first one), I would avoid subclasses.  It adds a new level of programming that isn't really necessary.  For example, Final Fantasy V had 22/26 "jobs" (classes), but no sub-classes.  When in doubt, I would omit a given class, and then make it later.  One of the great things about fan games, is that you can always make post-release patches, and release really big things like new classes, quests, regions, etc without corporate or consumer annoyance.


You Can start in any region.
I would love this, but be careful that it doesn't make the game too hard or too easy.  Once you finish one region, you'll have all those high level pokemon (or you yourself be high level), that could possibly lead to steamrolling future regions.

One solution that I personally rather like the idea of, is to, instead of moving from one region to another, instead make it more open world.  Have a starter that you pick in the beginning, and then have the ability to journey to other lands immediately, and either have additional starters given as quest prizes, or have them available for levels of completion (X number of gym badges earned, X number of pokemon owned in pokedex, etc).  That way, especially if you hike the difficulty curve up, you can have the main quest (or individual quests) lead the trainers all across the world.  It would both cut down repetition, and showcase the massive world you want to create.

And specifically on the topic of starters, I would love to see a game where you can catch the starter pokemon in the wild.


You will have an option to have turn base battle on and off but I am thinking of taking out turn base battling for those you dont like it.
Generally speaking, if you have a bunch of fans of a game that has been turn-based since its inception, they're probably going to like turn-based games.   Wink

From a programming/game design standpoint, turn-based play is a LOT easier to program (as the game is exclusively dealing with GUI triggering animations, as opposed to creating hit boxes, timing, and creating AI that deals with timing).  

Those facts aside, a non-turn-based pokemon game would be interesting, but I would suggest making a much smaller game to test it out, first.  If it proves a success among fans, then implement it in the larger game, otherwise you could have people not wanting to play the game you pour a ton of time into after disliking the non-turn-based system.

And as for turning turn-based on and off, I would suggest against it, as that would be a lot of extra (and probably unnecessary) work.  It would require two core engines, two sets of AI, and likely additional work to balance both systems.  I would go with one or the other, but not both.


I do plan on going to college for Video game design in about years time.
I wish you the best of luck with that.  It sounds like you've got a lot of good ideas.  


Despite that I might sound critical, I really like this idea, but it sounds a lot like a lot of the ideas I start into:  something overly ambitious that, while awesome, never gets to an alpha level due to too much to work with. ^_^''  So this advice is largely from first-hand experience.

Especially if you're still new to game design, I would suggest working on a couple smaller projects, first.  Make a non-turn-based pokemon game, something that is small (maybe not even have a world so much as a Pokemon Stadium-like tournament).  If the battle style is successful, you can take the core mechanic and import that programming straight into the final version, otherwise, you can set it aside as a novelty.  Also, make a one-region game using a few classes.  Once you've brought something like that to Alpha, you can expand it by adding new regions, new classes, new quests, etc piece by piece.

So I guess in summary, keep your aims high, but place your goals nearby.
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Re: DemonCatZombies Video game Idea :D

Post by TBC on Mon Jan 05, 2015 6:26 pm

@Drazex wrote:Especially if you're still new to game design, I would suggest working on a couple smaller projects, first.  Make a non-turn-based pokemon game, something that is small (maybe not even have a world so much as a Pokemon Stadium-like tournament).  If the battle style is successful, you can take the core mechanic and import that programming straight into the final version, otherwise, you can set it aside as a novelty.  Also, make a one-region game using a few classes.  Once you've brought something like that to Alpha, you can expand it by adding new regions, new classes, new quests, etc piece by piece.

This. 1000x this. I also agree with most all of your points, aside from the region balancing. My issues with a traditional level/engine design for Pokemon utilizing all regions is a 4 paragraph tirade itself lol.

But yeah, I want to stress the last point you made there. I've seen sooooo many people "getting into" game design and saying how they want to make this amazing fantastical Pokemon game. What happens? Within 2 months they realize just how hard game design is and then quit.

Just like with writing, you do not want to start with some 1000 page trilogy book for your first work. It's just not feasible. Hell, Gen 0 definitely isn't my first foray into game development either. It's the furthest I've gotten in a project. But it was not where I started by any means.
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Re: DemonCatZombies Video game Idea :D

Post by ZombieDemon on Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:40 am

I understand and thank you both for your Criticism :3 Its well appreciated... This is why I wanted to talk to other people and fans about the game. If anything I would like to get some fans in on it to help make and test and other stuff. It has just been a huge idea I have had for about 8 or 9 years now. And no criticism is worse than bad. It dont bother me you are telling me this. I actually understand where you both are coming from and I hope i will be able to get it done to make fans happy. I will re read the posts in this forum when I start actually putting down my ideas for real real like when I wanna offer this idea to Nintendo, and if I dont get to work with Nintendo i will try to make it as a fan made game.
And I have made a small online game in a video game after school making class my last year in high school.. they only offered it that year and i jumped on that wagon so fast lols.
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Re: DemonCatZombies Video game Idea :D

Post by TBC on Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:04 am

You're welcome!

But yeah, it's definitely not meant as a deterrent or anything. Quite the opposite. I hate to see all these people try to jump right in the deep end, belly flop and not come back.  I'd much rather see you succeed Smile That's why starting on something smaller would be much better for you.

Hell, it doesn't even have to be anything you actually release. The Pokemon Essentials Starter Kit(if you go the RPG Maker route) comes with a pre-made sample game. You could just make something small like that yourself and work on editing theirs. Even a simple game where someone goes and gets a badge or two would be good.

Or, do what Draz was talking about, too. Start making the game you want to, but build up from the basics. Hell, even I did that with Gen 0. I've always wanted Pokemon walking behind you and fancy Gen 4 graphics with great cut-ins, but I definitely didn't start with any of that.

Get used to whatever program you're using first. That's the most important thing. Also, feeling the sense of accomplishment from learned failure and finishing something. That's why smaller games first are good.

But yeah, I wish you luck ^_^ Just if you will take anything from my advice as a(so far successful) developer, start small and work up. It is so important and key.  Also, keep us updated with your ideas, and when you get going the actual game! Very Happy

If you noticed, I created the new concepts forum and moved your topic here. You can update your original post as you get more information for your game and post about it here.  Once it gets to the stage of having real progress( Or if you make a smaller game and want to advertise Wink ) you can post it in the progressing games forum Smile
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Re: DemonCatZombies Video game Idea :D

Post by Drazex on Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:00 am

@TBC wrote:My issues with a traditional level/engine design for Pokemon utilizing all regions is a 4 paragraph tirade itself lol.
Well, engine design is different, but fundamentally, I'm simply talking for any game. As players play, they will get more skilled and (in anything remotely RPG-like) will level up and get better stats. That means there has to be some difficulty curve to keep the game fun. There are three solutions to this:
1.) Certain areas are harder than others,
2.) Enemies scale as you do, or
3.) Enemies are different difficulties, be careful.

The second (used for Skyrim, etc) keeps the whole game challenging, but at the expense of it being harder to see where you've come (yes, I have a guilty pleasure having my level 100 Deoxys, attack mode, use psycho boost on a level 2 pidgey). Additionally, it's somewhat harder to program (script versus array).

The third is the most immersive (and would potentially work really well for a multi-region area. Have all gym leaders hard, so you don't wonder why some random hiker doesn't give Brock the boot, or some random Swimmer oust Misty). This, however, can make goals seem unreachable, and remove some of the fun of the game, even if its for the sake of immersion in the world. It also relies on you having more dedicated quests to give a sense of accomplishment despite not being able to beat a "boss" in an area.

The first option is thus the easiest to work with, and is the choice Pokemon itself (as well as most other RPGs) take. Not that it's necessarily the best way, but it is easy to program, and easy to calibrate difficulty with.

So this is all I was saying. Generally speaking, there will always be some amount of balance required. And for multiple regions, you have to be even more careful that the game is neither too easy nor too hard after a certain point in the game.

@ZombieDemon wrote:when I start actually putting down my ideas for real real like when I wanna offer this idea to Nintendo, and if I dont get to work with Nintendo i will try to make it as a fan made game.
I'd even start working on the core mechanic of the game before taking it to anyone else. If you go to Nintendo, and say, "I have a cool idea, bro," they could easily say, "Get in line, brah." But if you say, "I have a cool idea, bro, you should play the demo," they're far more likely to take it seriously, and to be impressed by your skill. Also, if you'll make a fan-made game, anyway, you don't lose any effort if they say no, because you can still reuse the mechanic in the demo ^_^
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Re: DemonCatZombies Video game Idea :D

Post by ZombieDemon on Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:22 am

I did notice it was moved TBC lols. It confused me when I couldnt find it at first.

Well What i was originally thinking for the traveling to new regions in pokemon was your pokemon restart but now that I think about it, that would not be fair to the trainer. When I think of traveling to a new Region I think of hey a new starter sweet, not damn I gotta retrain all my pokemon again. I am thinking of making the NPC gym leader/gym trainers see what your highest level pokemon is and conduct what level they should use to be a challenge. To me it would seem reasonable that gym leaders would have many different lvl pokemon for all challengers. I think by the time I get to the point of actually trying to make a demo/fan game of this it would be a little reasonable to go past Lvl 100. So you dont have to leave your op pokemon in the box to have fun.

I am also thinking that if you want to have the other starter pokemon maybe half way or at certain places in each region you will be able to catch the other 2 starters of the Gen you picked in that Region. That way there is no trading to friend starting new game to get all starters and having them get pissed with you if they get over lvl 10 before your first or second gym. That attitude comes pretty fast if they are traded cause of that Boosted exp they Gain lols.

I am also thinking of having the ability to fly without the hm fly... Save the HM fly for when you wanna visit past cities you visited and and stuff like that. Be able to fly and Have a sky adventure and sky battles if you wanted to. Its just so much to think about sometimes and it sometimes helps I have insomnia to think about this. stuff lol
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Re: DemonCatZombies Video game Idea :D

Post by Drazex on Sun Jan 18, 2015 1:08 am

@ZombieDemon wrote:Well What i was originally thinking for the traveling to new regions in pokemon was your pokemon restart but now that I think about it, that would not be fair to the trainer. When I think of traveling to a new Region I think of hey a new starter sweet, not damn I gotta retrain all my pokemon again.
Yah, I definitely wouldn't do that. It works for Ash, apparently, but it would frustrate the heck out of most players (myself included), and make it hard to have events that cross regions (which could be really cool).

@ZombieDemon wrote:I am thinking of making the NPC gym leader/gym trainers see what your highest level pokemon is and conduct what level they should use to be a challenge. To me it would seem reasonable that gym leaders would have many different lvl pokemon for all challengers.
This could be cool, though especially for something like pokemon, I'd suggest being careful about not making grinding become counter-productive. Depending on how your mechanics work, it might work for a non-turn based game, but in a traditional JRPG (like pokemon's regular mechanics), grinding is an intended part of gameplay. What might work even better than directly setting levels based on your party levels, would be to have the gym leader have like 2 dozen pokemon of various levels, and then choose which of them to use based on what's closest to your highest level. If you've got pokemon more powerful than their highest level, then you'll be able to curb stomp. If you're under their lowest level, then prepare to be curb stomped. In that way, it's both more dynamic, and still somewhat static.

@ZombieDemon wrote:I think by the time I get to the point of actually trying to make a demo/fan game of this it would be a little reasonable to go past Lvl 100. So you dont have to leave your op pokemon in the box to have fun.
Uncapping (or at least increasing the cap) is a great idea, though again, don't be too worried about that until later. Start off small, and then add to the game as time goes on.

@ZombieDemon wrote:I am also thinking that if you want to have the other starter pokemon maybe half way or at certain places in each region you will be able to catch the other 2 starters of the Gen you picked in that Region.
You could even have the ability to catch all 3 starters (no need to omit one just because you have it). I would definitely suggest making them rare, though. They make either for a great surprise, or for a pokedex hunt later Razz

@ZombieDemon wrote:I am also thinking of having the ability to fly without the hm fly... Save the HM fly for when you wanna visit past cities you visited and and stuff like that. Be able to fly and Have a sky adventure and sky battles if you wanted to.
This is also a really cool idea, though I'd suggest having it be part of Fly, at least based on the original mechanics. Having an HM gives a convenient way to activate an ability that would only be useable by certain pokemon while in the field. What you could do, though, is either have the option of fast travel vs "sky adventure" modes when used, or just omit the fast travel in favor of much faster movement in "sky adventure" mode (which would be awesome, and much more immersive than fast travel). There's also precedent for it with the Gen III HM Dive, which also added a new layer of travel through HM.
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Re: DemonCatZombies Video game Idea :D

Post by TBC on Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:07 pm

@Drazex wrote:The third is the most immersive (and would potentially work really well for a multi-region area.  Have all gym leaders hard, so you don't wonder why some random hiker doesn't give Brock the boot, or some random Swimmer oust Misty).  This, however, can make goals seem unreachable, and remove some of the fun of the game, even if its for the sake of immersion in the world.  It also relies on you having more dedicated quests to give a sense of accomplishment despite not being able to beat a "boss" in an area.
I disagree. To start, your first and third premises are largely the same. Having difficult areas and then just enemies that vary in difficulty are essentially the same thing. At least, they would be executed nearly synonymously.

Secondly, the premise falls short because if you made every gym difficult like you're saying, it would have to either be an insanely high static difficulty, or be one that Demon suggested where the difficulty scales with you in tiers. The first method is problematic, since it is a giant grind-wall until you can beat it. After you're able to, you're stuck at max level and just fighting toe-to-toe with no progression for the rest of the 3 regions.

Scaling would be a bit better. But the same issue arises with balance and a level 100 level system. Pokemon are entirely designed around level to 100. In order to continue from one region to the next without restarting and having it be progressively more difficult, would require experience gain be immensely slow, or you would have to increase the level cap and all of the moves and evolutions to compensate for like a level 300-500 cap.

@Drazex wrote:The first option is thus the easiest to work with, and is the choice Pokemon itself (as well as most other RPGs) take.  Not that it's necessarily the best way, but it is easy to program, and easy to calibrate difficulty with.
As above, this has the issue with the 1st and 3rd premises being too similar. However, this method does work with the 255 stat system and level 100 system. In the aforementioned explanation, I cover the difficulties with multi-regions and stat inflation.

This terminology is called "power creep". Look it up, it's pretty interesting Very Happy

@Drazex wrote:So this is all I was saying.  Generally speaking, there will always be some amount of balance required.  And for multiple regions, you have to be even more careful that the game is neither too easy nor too hard after a certain point in the game.
Of course, that is my point as well. What I am saying, though, is that with Pokemon's current experience and level gain structure, there is no possible way an enjoyable game with 4 regions included could be made.

It would require a complete re-working of the progression system(leveling up etc.) in order to compensate for that style of gameplay.


@ZombieDemon wrote: the NPC gym leader/gym trainers see what your highest level pokemon is and conduct what level they should use to be a challenge. To me it would seem reasonable that gym leaders would have many different lvl pokemon for all challengers. I think by the time I get to the point of actually trying to make a demo/fan game of this it would be a little reasonable to go past Lvl 100. So you dont have to leave your op pokemon in the box to have fun.
If you're doing more than 2 regions, you would have to change the level system to accommodate to 200 at the very least. Then, you would have to re-work evolutions for Pokemon and when they learn moves.

Should the evolutions be spread out where some Pokemon evolve at like level 110? Or would they peak early and simply gain stats after so long? Would it be boring to peak early and gain stats? Or would it be boring to drudge through 110 levels to evolve your Pokemon to the highest form?

The basic level system they have just does not work with a 3-6 region game. It would have to be modified greatly to work at all, unless you want your game's gameplay to suffer to the point of eye-bleeding annoyance.

I like the fly idea, too. Kinda like what they did in OR/AS.
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Re: DemonCatZombies Video game Idea :D

Post by Drazex on Sun Mar 15, 2015 1:45 pm

@TBC wrote:I disagree.
Actually, if you read closer, you just agreed with me, point for point, except for a misunderstanding in the nature of points 1 and 3.

@TBC wrote:first and third premises are largely the same. Having difficult areas and then just enemies that vary in difficulty are essentially the same thing.
VERY incorrect. The first premise is what is present in the pokemon games; all the trainers of an area are about the same level, but the base level changes by geographic location. The third premise is that there is little to no change by geographic location, but trainers in a given area could have wildly different party strengths (eg, a youngster with a level 5 rattata next to a hiker with a level 27 onix). The two approaches are polar opposites.

@Drazex wrote:This, however, can make goals seem unreachable, and remove some of the fun of the game
@TBC wrote: problematic, since it is a giant grind-wall until you can beat it
You just stated the exact problem I did, just in a slightly different way. However I also pointed out that, if the gyms themselves weren't the actual goal (hence bringing up the idea of "more dedicated quests"), it could be feasible, if not the most ideal option. And if you read the context, the entire proposal is simply on how to maintain suspension of disbelief within proposal 3. And in fact, I was using it to illustrate why option 1 is most commonly used, and generally better, despite being less realistic, given the ramifications that would have to be considered as a result.

@TBC wrote:Should the evolutions be spread out where some Pokemon evolve at like level 110? Or would they peak early and simply gain stats after so long? Would it be boring to peak early and gain stats? Or would it be boring to drudge through 110 levels to evolve your Pokemon to the highest form?
Given what a pain evolving pokemon like Rhyhorn and Dragonair is, I'd say have them evolve early. This is already represented in most pokemon in the current system, where most pokemon evolve to their final form well before level 40 (and many around level 20, give or take about 4 levels).
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